Given Teslas success, why arent more car manufacturers using lithium-ion cells from Panasonic?

Panasonic car Battery for sale

Itu2019s not that Panasonic makes the worlds greatest Lithium-ion Cells, in fact when Panasonic runs out of cells Tesla simply buys similar cells from Samsung SDI.

It is the Panasonic partnership that special.

,Batteries are a high volume low profit business.

When Tesla builds a Model 3 sedan they earn 20 cent for every dollar it cost to build.

In 2014 Panasonic earned 3.

1cent for every 1$ in batteries they sold.

With net sales of $23.

3 billion Panasonic earned $729 million in profit that year.

,Panasonic when asked can produce more batteries will happily do so.

But if asked to produce 4 - 10 times more batteries in 4 years.

Panasonic and all of the other batterie makes will respond the same.

Yes but only once you start placing the actual orders not making promises.

They of course do not want to start making 1 cent per battery in profit, or worse a loss, because they are waiting for promised orders to come in.

,And thats where the Tesla partner ship is a win win.

Now Panasonic is asked to make more batteries 4 years down the road but they are given perks.

Can you make more batteries if we pay for the building and you only pay for equipment and staff.

Will you make more batteries if we buy the Lithium your going to need 3 years in advance of you needing it.

(lithium takes 1.

5 - 3 years from the time it comes ou.

.

.

Panasonic car battery review

Panasonic is investing 50 billion yen ($412 million) in China to build a lithium-ion battery factory aimed at the electric vehicle market, according to a new report from Nikkei.

The annual capacity is projected to be the equivalent of u201caround 200,000 electric vehiclesu201d.

,Panasonicu2019s factory will be located in the northeastern city of Dalian, Liaoning Province and it is expected to go online in 2017.

,Panasonic is also a major investor in Teslas Nevada Gigafactory.

,Chinese investment: Panasonic to build green-car battery plant in China- Nikkei Asian Review

Panasonic car battery lifespan

Thanks for A2A.

,Iu2019m on record as hating contemporary Lithium battery technology.

As the carbon-graphite electrodes break down, each cell becomes less and less useful until it has to be replaced.

At least, within a Tesla vehicle, they are all contained and one knows that they will be properly recycled.

,When carbon-graphene electrodes are perfected, they will be less prone to decay, and they will offer u201cten times the capacity and ten times the useful lifespanu201d and, hopefully, prove to be safer.

,Ignore the criticism in other answers about 18650 cells not being used in phones.

Your question specifically says u201ccellphone-likeu201d which is correct.

The single flat cell in a modern phone is chemically and electrically identical to the 18650 which is, to the best of my knowledge, the original size u201cAu201d that disappeared from general use because of u201cAAu201d, u201cAAAu201d and even u201cAAAAu201d.

,I wouldnu2019t call the move genius.

I would call it common sense.

It is not public knowledge as to what chemistry was used in GMu2019s u201cVoltu201d (all of which were allegedly destroyed) and most other attempts at electric vehicles have used the established of the Lead-Acid cell.

Because of its long established history of reliability it still remains dominant in ICE motor vehicles and Iu2019ve yet to see a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) that uses Lithium.

A UPS can afford to be large because itu2019s not meant to be mobile, and it is comparatively cheap and very reliable.

When I worked at a satellite station, there were three UPSes, each with racks and racks of standard Lead-Acid car batteries.

Those three UPSes combined, could run the entire facility for 90 mins while the pre-heated Diesel generators got started and came online.

That whole UPS-room could be reduced in size to about 1/4 if the Lead-Acid were replaced with current Lithium technology, but long-term reliability is more important than space, and in such a critical operation as satellite communications no one is going to consider contemporary Lithium because of the fire hazard.

Didnu2019t Samsung learn that the hard way!,Tesla was aiming for a higher energy-density than Lead-Acid can offer, and Lithium technology is the current leader in the market.

First of all, you have a start-up which has no experience in building cars, let alone constructing its own batteries.

The Panasonic 18650 has a good track record.

They know that the maximum life-span is likely to be three years, so why spend time trying to re-invent the wheel? The 18650 works.

Itu2019s available in quantity.

Itu2019s small enough to be arranged into the awkward cavity shapes within the vehicle and itu2019s contained so that it can be recycled.

This is all prototype stuffu2014you use whatu2019s on the shelf.

,Itu2019s very likely that in the next decade as EVs become cheaper and more attractive commercially, that someone will take the time to develop vehicle-specific cells or batteries, particularly once graphene is more easily produced in consistent quality, or a completely different (and safer) rechargeable cell technology emerges.

,Panasonic is producing a reliable and proven 18650 that works: If it ainu2019t broke, donu2019t fix it.

Panasonic Car Battery Near me

What are a few of the best brands of 18650 batteries?18650 Guide - Comparison ChartHereu2019s a much more detailed comparison with tests.

,I have had the best performance from the Panasonic green cells.

I have not tried all the others.

The first Tesla car batteries used the Panasonic cells.

They have the highest capacity rating I have measured.

Most of the cheap chinese cells list fictional capacities.

Never buy cells from manufactures with the word u201cfireu201d in their name.

,You didnu2019t say what chemistry you wanted to use.

LIFEPO4 cells are much safer, and nearly immune to thermal runaway you may have seen on various videos of batteries doing the roman candle.

They are a lower voltage and need a different charger.

The A123 cells are good and so far so are the Soshine and they have a larger capacity.

1800 mAH may sound low for a 18650, but in high current applications, the capacity fades less than with Lithium ion cells like the Panasonic.

I prefer the LIFEPO4 cells for flashlights and other stuff I carry personally around with me, even though the chances of a lithium ion cell exploding are slim.

The LIFEPO4 cells are also much longer lasting: 5000 cycles versus 500 to 1500 for most lithium ion.

They do better in the cold and the heat and usually put out more current.

Panasonic Car Battery specifications

So, letu2019s be clear on this: Your plan is that we continue to make gasoline cars - which are in falling demand around the world - and the sale of which will be BANNED in many countries within 10 to 15 yearsu2026while we allow China to completely dominate the EV market - more or less unopposed in the meantime?,Furthermore - to push US CO2 emissions even HIGHER than they already are by making it harder to buy an EV?,Seriously?,This is your idea?,Honestly, itu2019s easily the dumbest idea Iu2019ve heard on Quora for a very long time!,TRUTH:The US makes the BEST electric cars in the entire world right now.

(Yesu2026TESLA)u2026and we need to make sure that we fight like hell to increase that lead.

,We also make our own batteries specifically for those cars.

,This is the biggest lithium ion factory in the world - itu2019s called u201cGigaNevadau201du2026and itu2019s in Nevada (duh!)u2026,u2026and although itu2019s in service right now - shared by Panasonic and Tesla - itu2019s still under construction and is only about a quarter the size it will eventually be.

,When completed, itu2019ll be not just the biggest battery factory - itu2019ll ALSO be larger than all of the other battery factories in the world put together.

Yeah - the US will be the biggest battery producer in the world once this is completed.

,The finished factory will look like this:,Fun fact: Itu2019s aligned perfectly North/South so that the solar panels that completely cover the roof - combined with the wind farm on the hillside at top right of this photo produce the most energy possible.

It already generates all of itu2019s own energy - and when there is an excess, sends it out to the Nevada electricity gridu2026so itu2019s also a power station.

,If youu2019re an Americanu2026you should be proud of this.

Itu2019s a national treasure.

,MORE TRUTH:Batteries arenu2019t just for cars - we also need them to improve our solar and wind production with massive battery stationsu2026of the kind that has been exported to Australia and has been installed in Texas using batteries made in Nevada.

,They are also used in household rooftop solar systems to store excess daytime energy for use at night to make solar power more useful.

.

.

,The PowerWall is a US made (with US made batteries) battery pack that can keep your house running for up to three days.

,The USA not only has the lead in such things - we are the only country in the world that makes them.

,You want to hand that to China toou2026just so we can keep this horror running for a few more years?,YET MORE TRUTH:Enormous battery packs will soon be in high demand for electric semi-trucks, trains, construction equipment and large ships.

,Again - you want to just hand this entire untapped market to the Chinese so that we can ride out gasoline until itu2019s banned everywhere in the world and US industry is 20 years behind the rest of the world?,Thatu2019s REALLY what youu2019re hoping for?,A MUCH BETTER PLAN:What we need to do (and URGENTLY) is to encourage new EV startups (Lucid, Rivian, etc) to work towards u201cMade in the USA batteriesu201d (or, at a minimum: u201cMade in China by a US companyu201d), and to help Ford and GM to do the transition to EVu2019s faster and more smoothly.

,We need to make it easier for companies to get into high-tech battery manufacturing - HUGE government grants to get large factories built to make them - and to prevent Tesla from having a monopoly.

,Letu2019s get a consortium of other car companies, energy companies and such together and build a SECOND gigantic battery factory.

,CONCLUSION:The USA has the lead here - take it, run with it, maintain and expand on it.